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	<title>Comments on: Comparing to Chinese (part 3): Grammar</title>
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	<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/</link>
	<description>Japanese, Chinese, and a dash of Korean</description>
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		<title>By: PixelSlave</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator>PixelSlave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-2656</guid>
		<description>Chinese is a pattern oriented langauge. A pattern can fall out of fashion even though it can form perfectly valid Chinese sentences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinese is a pattern oriented langauge. A pattern can fall out of fashion even though it can form perfectly valid Chinese sentences.</p>
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		<title>By: ac</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-2558</link>
		<dc:creator>ac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-2558</guid>
		<description>I am a native Chinese speaker...so perhaps I can share some things about Chinese grammar.

不会觉得 just means &quot;don&#039;t feel/perceive/think about&quot;

觉 means &quot;feel&quot;
觉得 means &quot;feel about&quot;

The best way to learn chinese grammar is by reading children&#039;s books...then you can learn like how the chinese kids learned with the existing knowledge of grammar!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a native Chinese speaker&#8230;so perhaps I can share some things about Chinese grammar.</p>
<p>不会觉得 just means &#8220;don&#8217;t feel/perceive/think about&#8221;</p>
<p>觉 means &#8220;feel&#8221;<br />
觉得 means &#8220;feel about&#8221;</p>
<p>The best way to learn chinese grammar is by reading children&#8217;s books&#8230;then you can learn like how the chinese kids learned with the existing knowledge of grammar!!!</p>
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		<title>By: 張文深　チョ　ブン　シン</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-2116</link>
		<dc:creator>張文深　チョ　ブン　シン</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-2116</guid>
		<description>Lol, I didn&#039;t know the language I speak everyday could be so hard!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol, I didn&#8217;t know the language I speak everyday could be so hard!!!</p>
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		<title>By: rrrrrray</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1738</link>
		<dc:creator>rrrrrray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1738</guid>
		<description>Use of the 正 在 V 着 O 呢 zhènzài V zhe O ne sentence pattern [9]

    This sentence pattern indicates that an action is under way. Note that some of the elements of this pattern can be omitted: all the following sentences mean he is watching TV.
    1. 他 正 在 看 着 电 视 呢 full version
    2. 他 正 看 着 电 视 呢  without 在 
    3. 他 在 看 着 电 视 呢 without 正 
    4. 他 正 在 看 电 视 呢 without 着 
    5. 他 正 在 看 着 电 视 without 呢 
    6. 他 在 看 电 视 呢 without 正 and 着 
    7. 他 看 电 视 呢 without 正, 在 and 着

-----------------

I think the sentences sound more natural if you drop the 呢 at end. 

And #7 does not mean &quot;he is watching TV&quot;, it just means &quot;he watches tv&quot;. You would probably use that if someone asks &quot;what are his hobbies?&quot; and you reply with &quot;he watches tv&quot;.

I think the most appropriate version of &quot;he is watching tv&quot; is 他(正)在看电视.

As for the 着, I think you just need to read/listen more to get a hang of it. Most of the time, its existence is redundant.

正在 can be shorten to 在, but not 正. That&#039;s why you see the 着 in the second sentence, which cannot be removed. The second sentence is understandable, but it sounds really unnatural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Use of the 正 在 V 着 O 呢 zhènzài V zhe O ne sentence pattern [9]</p>
<p>    This sentence pattern indicates that an action is under way. Note that some of the elements of this pattern can be omitted: all the following sentences mean he is watching TV.<br />
    1. 他 正 在 看 着 电 视 呢 full version<br />
    2. 他 正 看 着 电 视 呢  without 在<br />
    3. 他 在 看 着 电 视 呢 without 正<br />
    4. 他 正 在 看 电 视 呢 without 着<br />
    5. 他 正 在 看 着 电 视 without 呢<br />
    6. 他 在 看 电 视 呢 without 正 and 着<br />
    7. 他 看 电 视 呢 without 正, 在 and 着</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>I think the sentences sound more natural if you drop the 呢 at end. </p>
<p>And #7 does not mean &#8220;he is watching TV&#8221;, it just means &#8220;he watches tv&#8221;. You would probably use that if someone asks &#8220;what are his hobbies?&#8221; and you reply with &#8220;he watches tv&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think the most appropriate version of &#8220;he is watching tv&#8221; is 他(正)在看电视.</p>
<p>As for the 着, I think you just need to read/listen more to get a hang of it. Most of the time, its existence is redundant.</p>
<p>正在 can be shorten to 在, but not 正. That&#8217;s why you see the 着 in the second sentence, which cannot be removed. The second sentence is understandable, but it sounds really unnatural.</p>
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		<title>By: rrrrrray</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1737</link>
		<dc:creator>rrrrrray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1737</guid>
		<description>I still don’t get all the different usages of 会.
不会觉得 sounds like “can’t think that…” to me and not “will not think…”

&quot;Hmm… so it sounds like 会 in this case means “will”. 果子熟了,自然会掉下来. - The fruit is ripe, it will fall naturally.&quot;

------------------

I think it is best to think of 会 as will/can and 不会 as the negative of the two which is won&#039;t/can&#039;t. 

You just need to decide its meaning in the context. 

Say for the sentence &quot;你不会觉得那太贵吗?&quot;.
Obviously, 不会 in here means &quot;won&#039;t&quot; (you will not think that too expensive?)

In everyday speech, the 会 is sometime omitted. 
&quot;你不觉得那太贵吗&quot; (you do not think that too expensive?)

They both mean the same thing, despite the different English translation. 

Hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don’t get all the different usages of 会.<br />
不会觉得 sounds like “can’t think that…” to me and not “will not think…”</p>
<p>&#8220;Hmm… so it sounds like 会 in this case means “will”. 果子熟了,自然会掉下来. &#8211; The fruit is ripe, it will fall naturally.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>I think it is best to think of 会 as will/can and 不会 as the negative of the two which is won&#8217;t/can&#8217;t. </p>
<p>You just need to decide its meaning in the context. </p>
<p>Say for the sentence &#8220;你不会觉得那太贵吗?&#8221;.<br />
Obviously, 不会 in here means &#8220;won&#8217;t&#8221; (you will not think that too expensive?)</p>
<p>In everyday speech, the 会 is sometime omitted.<br />
&#8220;你不觉得那太贵吗&#8221; (you do not think that too expensive?)</p>
<p>They both mean the same thing, despite the different English translation. </p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Yan</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1045</link>
		<dc:creator>Yan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1045</guid>
		<description>I liked your comparison of Chinese and Japanese - I&#039;m studying my third year of Chinese at university and I think what you&#039;re doing is great. I have to say though that once you&#039;ve started learning/grasped the basics of one east asian language it should get easier to learn another one. As Japanese, Korean and Chinese have many linguistic (dunno if thats right) links - such as sound loans and the same characters. I&#039;ve started taking Japanese classes at an evening classes and I have to say, knowing the kanji/characters to alot of words makes it much easier to pick up Japanese. Anyway keep it up Tae Kim!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked your comparison of Chinese and Japanese &#8211; I&#8217;m studying my third year of Chinese at university and I think what you&#8217;re doing is great. I have to say though that once you&#8217;ve started learning/grasped the basics of one east asian language it should get easier to learn another one. As Japanese, Korean and Chinese have many linguistic (dunno if thats right) links &#8211; such as sound loans and the same characters. I&#8217;ve started taking Japanese classes at an evening classes and I have to say, knowing the kanji/characters to alot of words makes it much easier to pick up Japanese. Anyway keep it up Tae Kim!</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1044</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1044</guid>
		<description>Regarding your comment on &quot;wan&quot; and &quot;le&quot;, basically when you use them bother just ignore the &quot;le&quot; because &quot;wan&quot; encompasses le.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your comment on &#8220;wan&#8221; and &#8220;le&#8221;, basically when you use them bother just ignore the &#8220;le&#8221; because &#8220;wan&#8221; encompasses le.</p>
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		<title>By: taekk</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1043</link>
		<dc:creator>taekk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1043</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s not just 了 that&#039;s difficult but the complete lack of tense and all the various characters that kind of imply tense but is really just more vocabulary. If the conjugations are simple enough like Japanese, I would prefer them. Now languages like Spanish on the other hand...

You&#039;re probably right about learning traditional first but right now I&#039;m just trying to get to basic conversational level so for example learning 办 instead of 辦 is just a time saver for me. Still, I&#039;ve learned to recognize many traditional characters from watching Taiwanese drama. And it helps that many traditional characters are more similar to the Japanese version than simplified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s not just 了 that&#8217;s difficult but the complete lack of tense and all the various characters that kind of imply tense but is really just more vocabulary. If the conjugations are simple enough like Japanese, I would prefer them. Now languages like Spanish on the other hand&#8230;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re probably right about learning traditional first but right now I&#8217;m just trying to get to basic conversational level so for example learning 办 instead of 辦 is just a time saver for me. Still, I&#8217;ve learned to recognize many traditional characters from watching Taiwanese drama. And it helps that many traditional characters are more similar to the Japanese version than simplified.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1042</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1042</guid>
		<description>wow, this is an interesting take on Chinese. I&#039;ve always felt that Chinese is pretty easy grammatically because there really is no grammar. I guess this isn&#039;t true for everyone. Plus it&#039;s such a relief for me to not learn any conjugations. It&#039;s really true that &quot;Chinese grammar&quot; really is just more vocabulary! Also, I&#039;ve never realized how much trouble 了 gives people. Personally, I&#039;ve never had trouble with it, but this is probably because I grew up in a Chinese household, so even though my Chinese is far far far from perfect, some things just feel almost like second nature to me.

And as a side note, about your comment on simplified Chinese reading materials not available, I really feel that one should learn traditional Chinese first. There so much culture and meaning to the traditional characters that gets lost when made into simplified. Plus, it seems that learning simplified after learning traditional would be an easier transition than simplified, then traditional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, this is an interesting take on Chinese. I&#8217;ve always felt that Chinese is pretty easy grammatically because there really is no grammar. I guess this isn&#8217;t true for everyone. Plus it&#8217;s such a relief for me to not learn any conjugations. It&#8217;s really true that &#8220;Chinese grammar&#8221; really is just more vocabulary! Also, I&#8217;ve never realized how much trouble 了 gives people. Personally, I&#8217;ve never had trouble with it, but this is probably because I grew up in a Chinese household, so even though my Chinese is far far far from perfect, some things just feel almost like second nature to me.</p>
<p>And as a side note, about your comment on simplified Chinese reading materials not available, I really feel that one should learn traditional Chinese first. There so much culture and meaning to the traditional characters that gets lost when made into simplified. Plus, it seems that learning simplified after learning traditional would be an easier transition than simplified, then traditional.</p>
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		<title>By: Tae Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/05/18/comparing-to-chinese-part-3-grammar/comment-page-1/#comment-1012</link>
		<dc:creator>Tae Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 14:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/?p=255#comment-1012</guid>
		<description>To serados
Hmm... so it sounds like 会 in this case means &quot;will&quot;. 果子熟了,自然会掉下来. - The fruit is ripe, it will fall naturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To serados<br />
Hmm&#8230; so it sounds like 会 in this case means &#8220;will&#8221;. 果子熟了,自然会掉下来. &#8211; The fruit is ripe, it will fall naturally.</p>
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