Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Forum

To address questions and improvements for the Japanese Grammar Guide as well as topics concerning Japanese in general.

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#1 2006-12-18 21:18:10

brendanmiller
Member

Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

As far as I can tell there's no coverage of the following

Okay: 東京に来たら、連絡してください。
Not okay: 東京に行けば、連絡してください。

If the subject is the same in both "halves" of the sentence, and there is volition in both parts, you can't use the "ba" form.

If that situation, if you wished to steer away from the colloquial over-tones of "tara" you have to do something like the following.

東京へ来ましたら、ご連絡してください。


At least, that's what I was taught. Is that right? I'm still a beginner.

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#2 2006-12-18 21:25:55

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

東京に来たら、連絡してください。 When you arrive in Tokyo, please contact me.
東京に行けば、連絡してください。 If you go to Tokyo, then you will please contact me.

The "wrongness" of the second is born mostly of the sort of condition ば sets up versus たら.

~たら
~ば
~なら(ば)
~と

Are in no way always interchangable, as I'm sure you're aware. In light of that, maybe it would be a good idea to include something, somewhere on just what sort of restrictions each conditional form govered in the guide has (in general)...

[edit] Though I'm not sure how practical it would be... Saburooさん has a huuuuuuuuuge section devoted to these very differences.

http://www.geocities.jp/niwasaburoo/49jouken.html

Last edited by Faumdano (2006-12-18 21:27:55)


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

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#3 2006-12-18 23:38:46

taniwha
Member

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

And I'm almost there smile (I've been reading the whole book from the beginning). Excellent book overall, and even better practice.


Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
There is no can't. -- Duun

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#4 2006-12-19 03:09:44

Yokohama
Member

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

There is no such Japanese as 東京に行けば、連絡してください, it doesn't make any sense.
It should be 東京に行くようになれば、連絡してください( If you will go to Tokyo, you will please call me.)

"If you go to Tokyo, then you will please contact me." should be translated as 東京に行く(の)なら、連絡してください, I think.

東京へ来ましたら、ご連絡してください。 sounds a bit odd, it should be 東京にいらっしゃったら、連絡してください or something.

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#5 2006-12-19 03:24:45

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

Yokohama wrote:

There is no such Japanese as 東京に行けば、連絡してください, it doesn't make any sense.
It should be 東京に行くようになれば、連絡してください( If you will go to Tokyo, you will please call me.)

"If you go to Tokyo, then you will please contact me." should be translated as 東京に行く(の)なら、連絡してください, I think.

東京へ来ましたら、ご連絡してください。 sounds a bit odd, it should be 東京にいらっしゃったら、連絡してください or something.

Was brendanmiller's 「東京に来たら、連絡してください」 correct? (着いたら might be better... but still)
Also, as for the 東京に行けば one, I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I tired to convey the weirdness of it in the English translation...

Also, let's see if I understand this correctly. Is 東京に行けば、連絡してください wrong because it essentially says:

東京に行く ⇒ 連絡してください
That is, it's almost like saying 東京に行くと、連絡してください (= ??? 変!)
That is, in no way does 「東京に行く」 directly lead to the consequence of 「連絡する」. The second is not a natural consequence of the first.

What about 「東京に行けば、(いつも誰かがお前を)連絡する(はず・だろう)」?

Last edited by Faumdano (2006-12-19 03:27:57)


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

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#6 2006-12-19 03:41:11

Yokohama
Member

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

Was brendanmiller's 「東京に来たら、連絡してください」 correct? (着いたら might be better... but still)

It's correct Japanese, and also 着いたら(has a different meaning) is good.

Also, as for the 東京に行けば one, I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I tired to convey the weirdness of it in the English translation...

I'm sorry, I didn't notice the part you mentiond.

Also, let's see if I understand this correctly. Is 東京に行けば、連絡してください wrong because it essentially says:

東京に行く ⇒ 連絡してください
That is, it's almost like saying 東京に行くと、連絡してください (= ??? 変!)
That is, in no way does 「東京に行く」 directly lead to the consequence of 「連絡する」. The second is not a natural consequence of the first.

I'm not sure, but maybe....

What about 「東京に行けば、(誰かがお前を)連絡する(はず・だろう)」?

I'm sorry to say that this is still not good either.

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#7 2006-12-19 03:57:03

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

I'm sorry to say that this is still not good either.

ふうん… interesting. Thank you Yokohama.


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#8 2006-12-19 10:12:29

taekk
Banned

Re: Difference between "ifs" : tara and ba form.

Yes, I should add something. I'm adding this to my TODO list.

-Tae Kim


それは、よくなくなくない?

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