Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Forum

To address questions and improvements for the Japanese Grammar Guide as well as topics concerning Japanese in general.

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#1 2005-09-10 21:14:33

keatonatron
Guest

を好き?

I brought this up in another forum and haven't yet received an answer I'm really happy with.

好き and 嫌い are supposed to be -na adjectives, which (according to textbooks and language teachers) means they can only be used to describe an object which is followed by は or が.

However, I have heard on multiple occasions 「何々を好き」.  If you were to bring this up to a Japanese language teacher (I wish I had while I was still in class!) they would most likely say "を is only used to denote the direct object of the sentence (the recipient of the action done by the verb).  Since no action is being done (好き is not an action, but a description) を can't be used."  But... it IS used!  So what do you guys think about that?  Is this one of the exceptions to the rules of を?  Or is the whole "It only denotes the direct object" just an easy explanation to tell beginners which isn't totally true when you get to more advanced material?

#2 2005-09-10 22:39:07

emperor
Guest

Re: を好き?

Well you asked for thoughts...so my thoughts are as follows:
好き is not an adjective but 好きだ/です/になる seems to be more or less an action. Following that rules the only thing left is to make it the object of the sentence. Though, personally it feels that 好き is rather used when the thing you like is the subject of the sentence...but google surprises me with 4,420,000 on を好き and 3,830,000 on が好き.
Anyways to sum my thoughts up: I think を denots the object and an action is done; the verb is merely being obmitted. If you search proper sentence you will see that it's usually accompanied by a verb. Example:
トニー君は誰を好きですか
[taken from the example data found here http://wwwjdic.ics.hawaii.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1C ]

#3 2005-09-11 01:00:24

Kate
Member

Re: を好き?

I can't answer your question, since I have never heard ~を好き before. I just want to say that 好き is in fact an adjective, not a verb.

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#4 2005-09-11 01:51:03

taekk
Administrator

Re: を好き?

Are you sure there was no verb?  For instance 好きになる? Then を can be used as the direct object of the verb (in this case: なる) Otherwise, just 何々を好きだ sounds strange to me.

-Tae Kim


それは、よくなくなくない?

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#5 2005-09-11 08:46:47

emperor
Guest

Re: を好き?

taekk wrote:

Otherwise, just 何々を好きだ sounds strange to me.

-Tae Kim

I think it's not strange that is sounds strange considering the exact string returns no results in google, the cloest thing one can find to it is '何を好き' [somehow this is the only thing that poops up when I search "何々を好き"]. Though that returns results even without verbs directly associated with it (though it seems those are always with '何を好きか') [and ones with verbs include 何を好きだ].
I wonder what circumstances make one hear something that is not in google[I might just not be able to use google properly] multiple times. Maybe check that this IS what you have heard.
Well maybe the japanese should just stop using 好き and start using 好く, then those problems are all gone wink. [They do already use 好かれる after all].

Last edited by emperor (2005-09-11 08:55:30)

#6 2005-09-11 10:16:56

nipponman
Member

Re: を好き?

think it's not strange that is sounds strange considering the exact string returns no results in google, the cloest thing one can find to it is '何を好き' [somehow this is the only thing that poops up when I search "何々を好き"]. Though...

Yeah, but this page http://www.google.com/search?q=%E4%BD%9 … rt=10&sa=N
shows that を好きだ is fairly common.

***EDIT***
To add to the confusion, there is an expression ~を好きではない meaning "to have no particular liking for~" Interesting.

Last edited by nipponman (2005-09-11 10:20:04)

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#7 2005-09-11 11:06:03

emperor
Guest

Re: を好き?

Why do you add a 'but'? You don't contradict what I said.
I said that there are ones without a verb like in '何を好きか' and secondly, ones that include verbs are with for ex.何を好きだ. Your research on the one without 何 does not seem to say that what I searched was wrong, though I only limited myself to the 'expression' or whatever it might be, that is in question here [and this expression has a 何..or even two wink].
Seeing the quote I can only think that you misunderstood the 'exact string' with which I wanted to refer to '何々を好き', which does not really return any results with a more exact string than '何を好き'

Last edited by emperor (2005-09-11 11:07:13)

#8 2005-09-11 14:23:12

nipponman
Member

Re: を好き?

Well I thought that you were saying that を好き is limited only to the expression '何々を好き'. If that isn't what you meant then my mistake.

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#9 2005-09-11 14:55:44

emperor
Guest

Re: を好き?

wink It's okay...here the proof that I don't think that this is the case:

emperor wrote:

I wonder what circumstances make one hear something that is not in google[I might just not be able to use google properly] multiple times. Maybe check that this IS what you have heard.

wink I was even doubting that the saying even exists....and I'm still wondering. My googling gave no results with that :-/

#10 2005-09-12 02:26:39

taekk
Administrator

Re: を好き?

I suppose using を isn't wrong considering that there's a book with 「を好き」 in the title such as this:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASI … 24-9068321

Still, it sounds strange to my ears. I don't think I hear it much in real life (if ever).

-Tae Kim


それは、よくなくなくない?

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#11 2005-09-12 03:33:18

keatonatron
Member

Re: を好き?

I've only heard it twice before.  Both times I said "Woah, explain to me why you can do that!" because I remember when I was first learning, books and teachers were very clear to state that 好き is not a verb so you don't use を with it.  They didn't say you CAN'T, they just said that in the simple sentences we were learning, you don't.

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#12 2005-09-12 10:40:02

nipponman
Member

Re: を好き?

I've done some research and apparently "ga" was used predominantly in the old times for these things. But now in modern Japanese "wo" is becoming more and more common. Also, using "wo" isn't grammatically incorrect, but it isn't as prevelant as "ga". So, basically, go wild!

Last edited by nipponman (2005-09-12 10:40:19)

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