Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Forum

To address questions and improvements for the Japanese Grammar Guide as well as topics concerning Japanese in general.

You are not logged in.

#1 2007-06-13 22:02:40

Faumdano
Moderator

ん・ン

Since I've nearly never the chance to actually speak Japanese, I've been wondering if I have all the little subtleties that ん presents when before and after certain other sounds. So, I thought I would record a few of the combos and ask you guys to critique me. As brutally as possible of course.

So that I have as little freedom in making this easy or hard on myself, I need one of you guys to pick

① an initial kana
② one of あ・い・う・え・お

Example: りゃ & え

Thanks smile


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#2 2007-06-13 22:10:07

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

I am so confuzed as to what youre asking. Lets just hear how your pronounce ん At the end of a word。
Lets start off easy:

さん!

(Not as easy as it seems...)

Last edited by pink~hime (2007-06-13 22:10:33)


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

#3 2007-06-13 22:11:14

bubblebath
Member

Re: ん・ン


Please correct my English.

Offline

#4 2007-06-13 22:14:02

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

Well I need something not of my choosing (preferably) for something like:

そん
その
そんの
そんお
そんよ
そにょ
そんにょ
そんご

Bubblebath: I'm aware of what they should be in theory, but putting something into practice is often not the same as the theory.


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#5 2007-06-13 22:16:22

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

Dont forget

そんわ
そんしょ
そんさ

(Theyre different)


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

#6 2007-06-13 22:17:51

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

Well, I suppose I could use what's been posted as is... it'll take me a bit to record, transcode, and upload the result.


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#7 2007-06-13 22:32:40

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

Tada~ . Don't hold back on the, omg you sucks tongue But atleast make it constructive.


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#8 2007-06-13 22:39:39

bubblebath
Member

Re: ん・ン

You mispronounced just そにょ. you said it as そんにょ.
And the rest is OK.


Please correct my English.

Offline

#9 2007-06-13 22:42:48

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

I noticed I held it a bit too long after listening to it after recording... oh well smile Good to know it's not way off or something.

Last edited by Faumdano (2007-06-13 22:42:55)


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#10 2007-06-13 22:43:38

scout
Member

Re: ん・ン

Here's my list:

さん
さんご
さんきゅう
せんぱい
はんばい
おんぶ
さんまん
せんえん
はんい
まんいん
むろんあかい

I think I've covered all the various sounds that get wrapped in ん.  (Some are repeated a few times.)

Offline

#11 2007-06-13 22:43:43

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

Also for そん、You sorta just nazalized the 「お」 And left it like that.
And そんお Was wrong too...acceptable though.

maybe this will help?:

http://japanese.about.com/library/media/audio/tenin.wav

Last edited by pink~hime (2007-06-13 22:45:14)


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

#12 2007-06-13 22:45:36

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

Linky doesn't work pink, I'll give scout's a shot for some of the ones I missed etc.


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#13 2007-06-13 22:50:29

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

Actually i want to hear your "r" Faumdano, i can usually say it with some preparation ><

lets see...

どろん
ラクダ
りれきしょ
るす
りゅうへい
りょう
りゃくしょう

(I get to hear your 長音 Too ^_~ )


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

#14 2007-06-13 22:52:12

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

Uhg... I'll do them both and post them both at the same time


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#15 2007-06-13 22:52:18

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

Faumdano wrote:

Linky doesn't work pink, I'll give scout's a shot for some of the ones I missed etc.

GRRRRR

Click "Audio files"
then select occupations
and click 店員 


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

#16 2007-06-13 22:59:58

bubblebath
Member

Re: ん・ン

pink~hime wrote:

Also for そん、You sorta just nazalized the 「お」

Yes, I agree with you. It certainly sounds like a sort of french nasal vowel.
However, the pronuciation offers no problem on the distinction of the meaning.
Uvular nasal would be difficult for the native speakers of English.

Last edited by bubblebath (2007-06-13 23:05:34)


Please correct my English.

Offline

#17 2007-06-13 23:03:05

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#18 2007-06-13 23:04:59

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

bubblebath wrote:
pink~hime wrote:

Also for そん、You sorta just nazalized the 「お」

Yes, I agree with you. It certainly sounds like a sort of french nasal vowel.
However, the pronuciation offers no problem on the distinction of the meaning.
Uvular nasal would be difficuly for the native speakers of English.

Gotcha, I'll make sure to practice the ん at the end of words... I find what comes right before it makes it harder or easier to get it "right".

Last edited by Faumdano (2007-06-13 23:08:06)


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#19 2007-06-13 23:09:58

scout
Member

Re: ん・ン

mine
pink's

Feedback is appreciated smile

Offline

#20 2007-06-13 23:10:51

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

Faumdano wrote:

I would pronounce え Sound in れき more like an "ay" sound. Also,くしょう the "u" in "ku" was less than whispered ^_~

ラクダ
There was something wrong but i dont know what, Just that its wrong :P

EDIT:

Faumdano wrote:

What the heck i ll take a crack it this too:

ぱ=Tooooo much aspiration
ん=Sounding a bit like Ng here

弱点: Saying ん Before 母音。

ん Sounds not at all like an "n(g)" before a vowel. Its like, a nazaly pause, maybe even a "y", but not "ng"

Last edited by pink~hime (2007-06-13 23:17:55)


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

#21 2007-06-13 23:15:50

Faumdano
Moderator

Re: ん・ン

scout wrote:

mine
pink's

Feedback is appreciated smile

Your りゅう etc are fine, but to me it seems your らりるれろ are a little "light". However, as I'm not a native be very skeptical of what I say smile

I would pronounce え Sound in れき more like an "ay" sound. Also,くしょう the "u" in "ku" was less than whispered ^_~

I disagree on the "ay". If it were れい then sure.

ラクダ
There was something wrong but i dont know what, Just that its wrong tongue

I think the く was a little short or something.


蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Offline

#22 2007-06-13 23:17:14

bubblebath
Member

Re: ん・ン

For Scout, all ん is OK.  If you would like to improve your Japanese., I recommend you to practice the pitch accent more.


Please correct my English.

Offline

#23 2007-06-13 23:17:58

Osaka_Joe
Member

Re: ん・ン

さんぜんさんびゃくさんじゅうさんえん  ¥3333
よんまんよんせんよんひゃくよんじゅうよえん   ¥44444

Or something more simple

じいん 寺院、 じしん  地震、 さんいん 山陰、 さいえん 菜園、 しょうにん 証人
ちょうかん 長官、 にょかん  女官

edit: I guess it was a bit too late.  Neve mind.

Last edited by Osaka_Joe (2007-06-13 23:26:19)


夫学須静也、才須学也。  非学無以広才、非志無以成学。
学問は静から才能は学から生まれる。 学ぶことで才能は開花し、志がなければ学問の完成はない。

Offline

#24 2007-06-13 23:18:52

SeanS
Member

Re: ん・ン

Faumdano wrote:

ラクダ
There was something wrong but i dont know what, Just that its wrong tongue

I think the く was a little short or something.

That's what I would say, a little short. But I wouldn't say that it's wrong. It sounded fine, just different.

Offline

#25 2007-06-13 23:21:38

pink~hime
Member

Re: ん・ン

Faumdano wrote:

I would pronounce え Sound in れき more like an "ay" sound. Also,くしょう the "u" in "ku" was less than whispered ^_~

I disagree on the "ay". If it were れい then sure.

Oh wait, yes you're right, the tip i got was "dont open your mouth as widely when saying japanese え”

Yes, i believe that was the problem here.


うまい書くことは、思いつけない。まぁ、変なことはいっぱいあるけど・・

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB 1.5.3