• Registered: 2007-11-14
  • Posts: 128

Topic: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ.　
Do (to others) as you would be done by [would have others do to you].

I got this sentence from 研究社. Some questions:

1. Assuming that this is a sagely advice (of sorts), why is おのれ being used? Isn't it sort of arrogant, like 吾輩?

2. This せざる, is it related to せざるを得ない？If so, is it just of the opposite meaning? And does the sentence then mean as "as you want others to do (to you)"?

3. 施す means to give/support/conduct, etc. But なかれ means must not. Doesn't the sentence then become "you must not do what you want others to do to you"?

----------------

One more:

策の施しようがない.　
It is beyond help.

4. Is this 施 + しようがない or 施しよう + がない? (Or do both mean the same thing?)

Last edited by ryuukohito (2009-05-26 23:57:56)

＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝
竜虎人です。僕はまだ日本語を学んでいます。
間違いがあったら、言ってくれてありがとう。お互いに力になりましょう。

Quote Post 1

  • Registered: 2007-12-07
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Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

ryuukohito wrote:

おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ.　

2. This せざる, is it related to せざるを得ない？If so, is it just of the opposite meaning? And does the sentence then mean as "as you want others to do (to you)"?

3. 施す means to give/support/conduct, etc. But なかれ means must not. Doesn't the sentence then become "you must not do what you want others to do to you"?

ざる is a negative conjugation, so yeah, it probably means, "Don't do to others what you don't like [done to you]."

4. Is this 施 + しようがない or 施しよう + がない? (Or do both mean the same thing?)

I assume the latter, maybe in the form 施し様.

Quote Post 2

  • From: 大阪市住吉区帝塚山中
  • Registered: 2005-05-22
  • Posts: 5,800

Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ.　

己＝one
欲（ほっ）する　→　欲（ほっ）せざる　＝　欲（ほっ）せぬ　～＝　欲（ほ）しくない
事勿れ　～＝　べからず・べきじゃない・な（するな！）

施す　→　ほどこし　＋　様　～＝　施す方法・施すやり方

蒔かぬ種は生えぬ

Quote Post 3

  • Allithus
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Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

just a note that ざる　seems to relate to ず
かる seems to work on any i adj, doesn't any know how to use it? does anyone know how it works on na adj?as in 暑かる　楽しかる, which might be off topic

书山有路勤为径，学海无涯苦作舟.苦海无涯，回头是岸.
The more diligent you are the faster you learn,the road to learning is filled with endless pain but the pain will take you to success.It might seems like endless pain and failure but success might be closer than you think.

Quote Post 4

  • Registered: 2007-11-14
  • Posts: 128

Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

Faumdano wrote:

おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ.　

己＝one
欲（ほっ）する　→　欲（ほっ）せざる　＝　欲（ほっ）せぬ　～＝　欲（ほ）しくない
事勿れ　～＝　べからず・べきじゃない・な（するな！）

施す　→　ほどこし　＋　様　～＝　施す方法・施すやり方

I initially couldn't see heads from tails, and I thought it was an imperative conjugation of 欲す + ざる. But I really understand now once you've broken it down. Thanks Faumdano!

＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝
竜虎人です。僕はまだ日本語を学んでいます。
間違いがあったら、言ってくれてありがとう。お互いに力になりましょう。

Quote Post 5

  • Registered: 2008-05-14
  • Posts: 740

Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

かる seems to work on any i adj, doesn't any know how to use it? does anyone know how it works on na adj?as in 暑かる　楽しかる, which might be off topic

i-adj      楽しかる　←　楽しく・ある　　　　欲せざる　←　欲せず・ある
na_adj  きよら・なり　←　きよら・に・あり

Their conjugations follow to that of あり；　(未然） あら、　(連用） あり、　(終止） あり、　(連体） ある、 （已然） あれ、 （命令） あれ   (except 連用形 → 楽しく・て)

So, for example, きよらなり （清らなり: beautiful) conjugates like this.
未；きよらなら　　用；きよらに　　止；きよらなり　　体；きよらなる　　已；きよらなれ　　令；きよらなれ　

Quote Post 6

  • Allithus
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Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

有難う御座いました

书山有路勤为径，学海无涯苦作舟.苦海无涯，回头是岸.
The more diligent you are the faster you learn,the road to learning is filled with endless pain but the pain will take you to success.It might seems like endless pain and failure but success might be closer than you think.

Quote Post 7

  • Registered: 2008-05-14
  • Posts: 740

Re: おのれの欲せざるところを人に施すことなかれ

↑ Ah, wait. I wrote 連用形 was an exception, but it's not. Such cases simply exist after all. big_smile

e.g. 楽しかった　←　楽しかり・たり　←　楽しく・あり・たり

In short, they're the secondary conjugation using ある.

Quote Post 8