Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Forum
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Today, the mayor of Kobe city was reported to say "In case an earth quake hits Tokyo, it's a chance", and it was critisized to be an inapropriate utterance.
It's because チャンス (chance) in Japanese connotes rare and valuable oppotunity. However, how is the english sentence, are there any problem?
You can also use "probability" or "likelihood" to mean chance.
The probablity of an earthquake in Tokyo runs high.
There is a high likelihood that an earthquake will occur in Tokyo this afternoon.
Today, the mayor of Kobe city was reported to say "In case an earth quake hits Tokyo, it's a chance", and it was critisized to be an inapropriate utterance.
Was it in Japanese or in English? If it's in English then yeah it's bad grammar there. I don't understand what was he trying to say.
Last edited by Kscnoko (2008-11-11 16:09:44)
In case an earth quake hits Tokyo, it's a chance. The sentence is indeed poor English, to the extent that the meaning is completely obscured. Perhaps the speaker meant "The case of an earthquake hitting Tokyo is a chance." (not that it is natural English, but, if it does reflect the speaker's intent, it would have been intelligible.)
Possible interpretations for chance would vary depending upon the context, and could include meanings of risk, opportunity, or probability. (there isn't much chance that "opportunity" would be correct, but it remains possible.)
"In case an earthquake hits Tokyo" would ordinarily indicate that some sort of precaution is in place: (Food has been stockpiled in case ~ / In case ~, food has been stockpiled)
All that aside, "There is a chance that an earthquake will hit Tokyo" presents no difficulty (chance would take the meaning of risk or possibility.)
EDIT: Forgot to mention another use of chance: Usually as an adjective, or following an adjective: indicating a random event, or an event without apparent cause. Pure/blind/mere chance. Chance ~. (e.g. chance encounter, 出会える )
Last edited by 運転者 (2008-11-12 05:39:49)
Thanks both, and it wasn't in English, I think I translated it badly and should have written it as "If an earth quake hit" instead. I'm satisfied just to know it's an incomprehensible sentence.
And I have to correct that it wasn't the mayor but the governer of Hyogo who said it, I appologize to him.
I reckon a ならば～んだ type sentence would be likely.
Maybe it was 関東大震災がおきたならば、それはチャンスです。
And the governer admited it was inapropriate today.
Literally - The case of (another) Great Kanto Earthquake arising; that is a chance. English speakers would not have a problem with using "chance" in that context.
Modified for more natural expression - There is [a / always the] chance that Tokyo will suffer (from) a major earthquake.
Last edited by 運転者 (2008-11-13 12:59:40)
I think the way it was perceived was "If Tokyo has a major earthquake, that's our chance." (And if the mayor of Chicago/governor of Illinois said the same thing of Los Angeles or San Francisco, he too would be criticized.)
関東大震災はチャンス?兵庫県知事ビックリ発言に失言王の橋下知事が渇 へぇ 渇（？）
「相当ダメージ受けますからこれはチャンスですね」 On my extremely limited ability to interpret Japanese, it would seem that the poor bloke knew more of the meaning of "chance" than of チャンス。
It seems "chance" has wider meaning and has more to do with not desirable one in many cases.
Thanks everyone.
別に、「chance」はつかず離れず
There's a good (strong) chance that it will rain.
If the grass has turned to dust, this is a good thing.
If the local river level has already risen higher than the window sills, it is a bad thing.
I think the way it was perceived was "If Tokyo has a major earthquake, that's our chance." (And if the mayor of Chicago/governor of Illinois said the same thing of Los Angeles or San Francisco, he too would be criticized.)
"関東大震災はチャンス", since the speaker expects or is waiting for Tokyo's having a big earthquake, - Tokyo is going to have a big earthquake in the near future, according to several scientific researches and predictions on this matter-, so can I use "When" instead of "If", in this case. like "When Tokyo has a major earthquake, ...."?
Technically, "when" could be used. However, there is a slight chance that the event may not occur (a series of small quakes, for example, might delay and reduce or eliminate the threat of a major quake.) In circumstances where a risk is ever present and the time of the event is uncertain, "if" is the better choice.
These same conditions do not apply with reference to positive events. The use of "if" can be taken as a very mild expression of a desire for the event to be averted.
(when/if) that person enters the room. "when" for "that person" = 友達, "if" for "that person" = 野郎. (assuming that a slight doubt exists.)
Last edited by 運転者 (2008-11-14 19:20:41)
(when/if) that person enters the room. "when" for "that person" = 友達, "if" for "that person" = 野郎. (assuming that a slight doubt exists.)
Oh, that's interesting.
I 've simply thought so far that the difference between "when" and "if" is that "when" is used for things which are sure to happen and "if" for things that will possibly happen.
So, I can enjoy English's company, English and English and English.
Och... "When" can be used even for things that will never happen.
Lend me $100?
Sure thing - When Hell freezes over. = "No chance whatever"
The thing is, Yokohama... Regardless of how certain a future event is, there is almost always at least an infinitesimal chance that it won't come about. For that cause, "if" can be used.
Regardless of how certain a future event is, there is almost always at least an infinitesimal chance that it won't come about. For that cause, "if" can be used.
I mean, my understanding is that "when" at least can be used in the case of the following.
If a person who lives in Tokyo has a friend in the US and is going to study abroad there, and this person is ready to go next week since having done everything need to be prepared.
In this case, studying abroad must be a future event and a mojor event this person's life and this person can say to the friend as "When I go to the US, I will buy you a beer." Even though there is an infinitesimal chance just in case, - in case of accident on the way to Narita or on the flight to the US, and this person may die in the accident. Right?
Or, even in an above case, is using "If" instead much better, common and natural?
とってもしつこくて、ごめんなさい。
I apologise for not making it more clear, Yokohama.
A future event for which there is no reason to believe won't occur. "When" is the appropriate choice, so your analysis is correct.
However, in the case of NEGATIVE events, the common practice is to take advantage of the technical possibility that some unforeseen intervention (神変,かもしれない) will prevent it from coming to fruition. So, the common practice is to use "if". "When" will rarely be used in association with future unwelcome events.
It is also possible to use "when" for your example, even in circumstances which make taking the trip uncertain. Again, this may be understood as expressing a wish rather than a fact. (This one is more mercurial than the "if" for "when" substitution though - it can be unsafe to use.)
Last edited by 運転者 (2008-11-15 22:03:32)
Yokohama: "when" in this context is "at, during, or after that time". Yes, it's conditional on "if he goes", but it refers specifically to the time of his going. This is why English has they saying "When, not if.".
A: If we succeed...
B: When, not if. We will succeed, and when we do, we will ...
Of course, there's always the chance of failure, but the language (in my example) is explicitly rejecting it.
Using "if" in your example is not at all natural (preparations or not). It puts no restriction on the time. "when" is conditional on both the basic condition (going) and time (he has arrived in America and is with his friend).
in the case of NEGATIVE events, the common practice is to take advantage of the technical possibility that some unforeseen intervention will prevent it from coming to fruition. So, the common practice is to use "if". "When" will rarely be used in association with future unwelcome events.
"when" in this context is "at, during, or after that time". Yes, it's conditional on "if he goes", but it refers specifically to the time of his going. This is why English has they saying "When, not if.".
A: If we succeed...
B: When, not if. We will succeed, and when we do, we will ...Of course, there's always the chance of failure, but the language (in my example) is explicitly rejecting it.
Thank you both, 運転者 and taniwha, for making my question crystal clear.
I 've got it right right now.
Today, the mayor of Kobe city was reported to say "In case an earth quake hits Tokyo, it's a chance"
I think of "chance" as indicating either a good event or a bad event.
I think I would say "there's a chance", however.
"There's a chance it will rain tomorrow."
"There's a chance I will win the lottery."
. . . .
If I were to say "it's a chance", I would say it as "it's a chance to..."
"The assembly is a social event. It's a chance to meet people."
Last edited by Chris Kroutil (2009-12-28 12:59:11)
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